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View Full Version : Skarrd Psychogenics - Control and Charge abilities



Galyn
07-26-2006, 02:36 AM
Got through the Skarrd section, came through a number of questions on how exactly some of these work. The most troubling are the Charge and Control ones. This is quite a laundry list, sorry (but a lot of this seems very very ambiguous):

Provoking Ridicule - ". . . must Charge at the caster -- using all available AP . . . "

1) Are units already engaged in CA forced to break from combat (assuming they must move to charge the caster) [assumed yes]

2) If in moving the unit it comes into base-to-base with an enemy, not the caster, this is by definition a charge. And, the model receives a free AP. May this AP be spent attacking the non-caster enemy?

3) the victim player still controls the unit. No specific rules are given for moving. . . Most direct route? Quickest route (avoiding rough terrain if faster)? Avoid dangerous terrain? Avoid combat with other models?

4) What happens if the unit panicks and flees? It can't it much charge . . . ?

5) What happens if the caster dies? are all remaining Ap lost? What if the unit hasn't activated yet?

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Vindictive Fury

6) What does "owning player" mean? I would assume this is the player victim player [i.e. the player who originally fielded the effected unit]. I wouldn't ask, except Provoking Ridicule doesn't make this distinction (see number 3 above).

7) Repeat questions 1 - 4 for this Psychogenic.

8) "Charge" is not mandatory, here (as it is in Provoking Ridicule). So, how is Reach handled? It seems to require a premeasure. . . ? Otherwise, if you cast it at someone obviously > 20 CM away, what stopps the player from saying "okay, I try to attack with my reach weapon. . . oh darn, I'm out of range. . . " :roll:

Yah, I know, that's STUPER cheese but there it is. More to the point, what about the not-so-obviously out of range. . . On a Wail for example, it may not be obvious if she is within 10" RE. How is it decided to attempt the attack at 10cm or movement of 6cm?

9) ". . . may only use CA or RE weapons. . . " What about Foci, Psychogentics, or other attacks which do not originate from a weapon?

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Rooted Fear

10) How does this interact with the other Charge/Attack psychogenics? If the model cannot move, but must attack a model not in CA range, may it attack an enemy already in CA? May it do other actions, [Foci, its own Psychogenitics, rally, etc,.] May it go "On Hold"? Or, must is basically forfiet its AP?

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Friendly Animosity

11) "When activated, the Un/Squad effected by Friendly Animosity becomes a friendly Unit to the caster. The caster activates the Unit/Squad . . . " Uhhgg. This one gives me twitches. . .

11a) Does this consume the victim player's activation in the alternating unit activations, or the caster players?

11b) Which player chooses when (independant of 11a) it activates?

12) "The caster activates the Unit/Squad effected by Friendly Animosity for the movement and attacks." . . . 'the movement and attacks. . . " this almost implies the victim player still controls the model for non-movement / non-attack actions and rolls?

13) ". . . may only use CA or RE weapons. . . " What about Foci, Psychogentics, or other attacks which do not originate from a weapon?

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Lair's Loyalty

14) ". . . must stay within 5 cm of the caster" What if this is not possible? Must one of the two models take a break from combat check to move if not w/in 5 cm at the start of the activation?

15) "May not be cast on individuals" - So, always squadmen. Does this count as a casualty to the target squad [for Panic]? Does the target unit suffer a panic roll for suddenly going from a squad of [for example 6] down to a squad of 1 (or is it 2?, see 15 below)

16) "the bodyguard activates with the caster" - Does this mean they are now a squad? Do they suffer the same OOC penalty of a squad? the same Panic checks? etc

17) What happens when the caster dies?

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I [i]think that's it. . .

DA_MrSota
07-26-2006, 05:13 PM
[quote=Galyn]

Provoking Ridicule - ". . . must Charge at the caster -- using all available AP . . . "

1) Are units already engaged in CA forced to break from combat (assuming they must move to charge the caster) [assumed yes]
Yes

2) If in moving the unit it comes into base-to-base with an enemy, not the caster, this is by definition a charge. And, the model receives a free AP. May this AP be spent attacking the non-caster enemy?

Stunke
07-26-2006, 05:56 PM
"Charge" is not mandatory, here (as it is in Provoking Ridicule). So, how is Reach handled? It seems to require a premeasure. . . ? Otherwise, if you cast it at someone obviously > 20 CM away, what stopps the player from saying "okay, I try to attack with my reach weapon. . . oh darn, I'm out of range. . . "

Just wanted to elaborate on this one.

Reach weapons do not get to part of the free action point you get from a charge.!!!

So if you wanted to go through with your trick, then you would first spend an AP on moving, then spend another AP sticking the air with your spear/flail/whatever.
So you waste that last AP pointing menacingly at some guy who is too far away to find out if you are all mouth about that melee weapon :D

'f yall know wuz I'm saying.

BUT!!!
You could move up and poke into the air in order to gauge some distance if you are right next to a shooty Unit.
Cheeky shit, and it will cost you an AP to do so. And you wont get to measure any more than the max 10 cm the reach weapon has.

Galyn
07-26-2006, 07:21 PM
That helped a lot!

My major concern revolved around how diligent the victim had to be in conforming to the Psychogenitic. The basic answer is: Not at all.

I take it, for example, with Provoking Ridicule I am only allowed to move, until/unless I have charged the caster. Then, I am only allowed to attack it.

But, I could move in the opposite direction, I just am not going to be doing anything constructive (other than not being suckered in and swarmed by the half-dozen buzz-blades almost certainly waiting to come and give me a hug).

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Friendly Animosity still makes my brain itch. I see a minor conflict between the two sentances:

"When activated, the Unit/Squad effected by Friendly Animosity becomes a friendly Unit to the caster."
and
"The caster activates the Unit/Squad effected by Friendly Animosity for the movement and attacks."

Normally, I take it from the example, the caster would use it one of their alternating activations. But, until that point, they are still controlled by the original player.

Can the 'owning player' choose to activate the unit? At which point, control switchs to the casting player (of course). Essecially, controlling when the effected unit activates, at the cost of allowing the caster to have two activations in a row.

For example:

Mr. Sota casts Friendly Animosity on Jordan's Banes, selecting his Coils as the designated punching-bag.

Jordan isn't concerned about the banes at the moment because the Coils are on the other end of the field, and are really not threatened by the banes. Instead, Jordan is trying to use up all of Mr. Sota activations, so he is free to pound on him with his excess units at the end of the turn.

So, Jordan declairs he is activating the effected Banes. Now that they are activated, control switches to Mr. Sota. Mr. Sota runs them around the mullberrybush for their two ap. Then, its Jordan's turn to activate another unit again.

???

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14) ". . . must stay within 5 cm of the caster" What if this is not possible? Must one of the two models take a break from combat check to move if not w/in 5 cm at the start of the activation?

Yes, that would be one example. If you can see a situation where this would happen without you trying to force it to happen, let me know


There are actually two situations here. Both, I think are very easy, to see happen:

"What is this is not possible?" - Easy. . . vs Dragryi. With PIN. Its cast on my Death's Device, at 8 CM away. My Tempests say, "No thanks" and run at them. Knock Prone. Pin. Next activation, the pinned models are unable to get free. (?) [Don't see this as forcing it to happen. They are all in my army. That would be my response: Tie up the vital Death's Device, while I attempt to kill the one who converted him]

"Must one of the two models take a break from combat check to move if not w/in 5 cm at the start of the activation? " - This will obviously happen, a lot. Cast at a target > 5 CM away. Player charges both models. Assuming they cannot kill one of the engaging models (and still have 1 ap left) they will have to spend the last Ap to break from combat and get w/in 5 Cm.

DA_MrSota
07-26-2006, 07:59 PM
But, I could move in the opposite direction, I just am not going to be doing anything constructive (other than not being suckered in and swarmed by the half-dozen buzz-blades almost certainly waiting to come and give me a hug).

[color=red]Target Unit must Charge at the caster

Galyn
07-27-2006, 03:24 PM
Okay, so maybe they weren't so cleared up. :?


Example, your Slaves have Provoking Ridicule cast on them. With what you are saying you will move them in the other direction? You would have to use all your available AP and engage in CA with the caster if able. How could you say you were trying to engage in CA with the caster if you were say going the opposite direction?


How? Because you said pretty much exactly that (didn't you?):

[quote]3) [I assume] the victim player still controls the unit. No specific rules are given for moving. . . Most direct route? Quickest route (avoiding rough terrain if faster)? Avoid dangerous terrain? Avoid combat with other models?
[color=red]Right, no specific rules are given. Basically, you must use all available AP and engage in CA with the caster. If you can

DA_MrSota
07-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Okay, so maybe they weren't so cleared up. :?

[quote]Example, your Slaves have Provoking Ridicule cast on them. With what you are saying you will move them in the other direction? You would have to use all your available AP and engage in CA with the caster if able. How could you say you were trying to engage in CA with the caster if you were say going the opposite direction?


How? Because you said pretty much exactly that (didn't you?):

[quote]3) [I assume] the victim player still controls the unit. No specific rules are given for moving. . . Most direct route? Quickest route (avoiding rough terrain if faster)? Avoid dangerous terrain? Avoid combat with other models?
[color=red]Right, no specific rules are given. Basically, you must use all available AP and engage in CA with the caster. If you can

Vaxillus
07-27-2006, 10:54 PM
As much as I agree that there are always ways around things, I also agree that there should be some slightly more definitive guidelines. Simply adding "...by the quickest route possible though the controlling player may attempt to avoid hazards which would cause immediate damage to his/her unit." would keep the less agressive rule benders from having their way.

Galyn
07-28-2006, 01:55 PM
[quote]It

DA_MrSota
07-28-2006, 04:52 PM
Oh, please don't take my facetious extremes as an : I will do this.
They are simply pointing out the extreme that is possible, as I interpreted the response. I know on-line text often conveys a different emotion than intended, sorry for any confusion.

I wasn

raziel691
08-03-2006, 07:39 AM
Hello everybody

Some question today from Exodus realese:

LIAR'S LOYALTY : just for 1 round of play or it's permanent ? :?:

ROOTED FEAR: "Target unit cannot move from current location.."..if unit is Squad member ?...the other member of the squad can move ?

Thank you very mutch

French Fan :P

DA_MrSota
08-03-2006, 03:52 PM
Welcome to Dark Age!



LIAR'S LOYALTY : just for 1 round of play or it's permanent ? :?:

It is 'semi-permanent' because if the caster is killed, or casts Liar's Loyalty on another unit, then the effects of the psychogenic go away...other than that, you keep the bodyguard





ROOTED FEAR: "Target unit cannot move from current location.."..if unit is Squad member ?...the other member of the squad can move ?


Other units in the squad can move...it's a great way to force someone to go out of coherency, or keep them in place.