Cover behind slaves

[Mordante]

What would be the appropriate cover to give a dragyri behind a slave wall? 2 or 4?

Would that change it there were holes in the slave wall, as in they are not all touching bases?

Is there a min distance the dragyri would have to be to the slave wall to get cover from them? Or is it just a LOS issue?
Thanks.

[Qu79]

what unit is it behind the slave wall and also what unit and weapon is taking a attack at the dragyri unit ?

[dragonlady]

Lets see, HUGE Trueborn, standing meters above the diminuative slave (less than a meter tall).

Visually, I don't see it!

They are too big to gain any bonus from those small iggly things, besides wouldn't that be cowardly?

:roll:

[Pr0fane]

If there is any modifier (and I'll let one of the Rules guys answer that) it would not be cowardly. It would be a)circumstantial and b)having the cowardly range attacks go where they should. ;)

[Qu79]

They are too big to gain any bonus from those small iggly things, besides wouldn't that be cowardly?

Nope because that's what the slaves are for, cannon fodder. there below the true born therefore they get all the nice jobs :D

[Mordante]

Lets see, HUGE Trueborn, standing meters above the diminuative slave (less than a meter tall).

Visually, I don't see it!

They are too big to gain any bonus from those small iggly things, besides wouldn't that be cowardly?

:roll:

Slaves are the size of regular humans, they are not less than a meter tall. Per the rules, obscured base (by any amount <50%) means +2 cover. If the base is more than 50% covered, +4 cover.

I'm trying to determine if Large or Huge dragyri get any cover from their base being obscured behind a wall of slaves.

I also do not see it being cowardly at all. That is why we bring slaves, to take the shots from the cowardly long ranged enemy who refuse to fight in HTH.

[bj]

*Essence Sneak Peek*

FIRING OVER UNITS - To make a RA over another Unit, the
intervening Unit must be a Size smaller than either the Unit
attempting the RA, or the target. If this obscures the target in any
way a -4 TN applies to the attack attempt.

[Mordante]

Thanks for the preview. I read this as saying anyone can shoot at a large or huge dragyri over a slave. However, since the slave partially obscures visibility to the Dragyri, they get a -4 to the TN. Is this a correct inturpretation?

[DA_Magpie]

[Pyrrhus]

-4TN :shock: wow thats steep. So Helexa behid Broodlings suddenly becomes a much more viable option as well

[Galyn]

By the way, this is nothing new.

Check out Genesis page 31.

"Firing OVer Units" is unchanged between Genesis and the Essence Preview.

[dragonlady]

Cool!

[Smedley]

-4TN :shock: wow thats steep. So Helexa behid Broodlings suddenly becomes a much more viable option as well

Ditto here, that does seem a bit steep.


Check out Genesis page 31.

"Firing OVer Units" is unchanged between Genesis and the Essence Preview.

Then why have the section, "Firing through gaps"? Wouldn't firing through a gap between two models technically still land you at -4 to hit?

Smedley

[Galyn]

They both provide "Cover" (made clearer in Essence). Cover is a -4 TN. Hiding behind Units is no worse than hiding behind terrain.

The "Firing Through Gaps" just specifies that Units impact LOS, by providing full Cover.

"Firing Over Units" clarifies that you can draw LOS and shoot over other models (if Sizes accomodate).

[gunslinger]

I just find it funny that anyone wants to hide their trueborn behind anything..

fluff wise they move in and observe from a distance while the slaves destory the weak.. the trueborn find the worth opponents and close the distance and kick the snot out of whoever it is.. if a trueborn dies in h2h combat to a worthy opponent it is a good death. they don't really see the slaves as a screen or shield or anything other than a cul process for them to gauge the ability of the greater foes..

in game it isn't so straight forward.. but it's fun to play it with fluff in mind.. try it sometime.. :D

[Mordante]

I do not consider getting shot by some cowardly human to be a worthy death, let the slaves kill him or die trying, or let him come face me in HTH. So getting a cover bonus behind slaves is perfectly per the fluff the way I see it.

I'm now a bit confused about the shooting between gaps counting as
cover (TN-4). I thought the rule was ligh cover (<50>50% of base obscured) was TN-4. The way I read the comment above is that it does not matter how much base is obscured, if you are shooting between gaps and ANY part of the base is obscured you get TN-4? For same size models behind each other this makes a difference that I don't think is clear in the book. Please elaborate.

[Galyn]

I just find it funny that anyone wants to hide their trueborn behind anything..

fluff wise they move in and observe from a distance while the slaves destory the weak.. the trueborn find the worth opponents and close the distance and kick the snot out of whoever it is.. if a trueborn dies in h2h combat to a worthy opponent it is a good death. they don't really see the slaves as a screen or shield or anything other than a cul process for them to gauge the ability of the greater foes..

in game it isn't so straight forward.. but it's fun to play it with fluff in mind.. try it sometime.. :D

Fluffy:
Sure, I agree in part. However, the Trueborn also see a death to a Ranged Assault as a terrible insult. While they would not want to soil their hands with the killing of such honorless wretches, I don't think they should stand out in the open with their arms crossed glowering at a Coil firing line. Honour does not necissarily imply stupidity. The Forces protray an Ice Caste with growing experience with Forsaken tactics (The presence of "Hatred: Forsaken" bears that out), and know they will use dishonorable tactics at will.

I would expect a Trueborn to send the slaves out to deal with a firing line. Now wheter they sat behind the advancing slaves, or some terrain cover, to watch the battle, or if they advance behind the slaves to take the challenge of honorable combat to the honorless, is up to the situation.

if the slaves stand a good chance of winning, they may just cool their heels watching the carnage. If it is obvious that the numbers of slaves are insufficient to take out the attackers, why wouldn't the Trueborn advance behind the slaves and take enemys the slaves couldn't handle (Cull the Weak implies the Trueborn will Cull the no-so Weak, themselves).

[Galyn]

I do not consider getting shot by some cowardly human to be a worthy death, let the slaves kill him or die trying, or let him come face me in HTH. So getting a cover bonus behind slaves is perfectly per the fluff the way I see it.

I'm now a bit confused about the shooting between gaps counting as
cover (TN-4). I thought the rule was ligh cover (<50>50% of base obscured) was TN-4. The way I read the comment above is that it does not matter how much base is obscured, if you are shooting between gaps and ANY part of the base is obscured you get TN-4? For same size models behind each other this makes a difference that I don't think is clear in the book. Please elaborate.

Correct, Firing through Gaps grants -4 TN Cover Modifiers, regardless of the actual percentage Covered. The text from Genesis is as followes (page 31 for those following along at home):

[quote]For a Unit to make a Ranged Assault through gaps between other
Units on the table, the gap must be wide enough to draw a
straight line without going over any Unit

[gunslinger]

@ mordante and galyn..

I am well aware of the ranged issues.. and as such I was also not avoiding that issue whatever.. they would just send the slaves after the unworthy.. either that or use their own that have fallen and are forced to use ranged weapons as well to deal with them.. and those trueborn with the ranged weapons would deal with ranged interlopers a bit differently.. they might move to engage them in h2h as well, thus neutralizing the ranged troops and also looking for those that might be overlooked by their comrades..


(there, does that fill in the gaps for you?)

[Magistrate]

I just find it funny that anyone wants to hide their trueborn behind anything..

fluff wise they move in and observe from a distance while the slaves destory the weak.. the trueborn find the worth opponents and close the distance and kick the snot out of whoever it is.. if a trueborn dies in h2h combat to a worthy opponent it is a good death. they don't really see the slaves as a screen or shield or anything other than a cul process for them to gauge the ability of the greater foes..

in game it isn't so straight forward.. but it's fun to play it with fluff in mind.. try it sometime.. :D

What if they're those wretched Soul Splitter outcasts hiding behind and entourage of Sling\Shardslaves? Ultimate cowardliness!

This is sort of a problem for me. I want to make an army of throwy-slaves with big shooty guys ( Soul Splitters, anything that lets me take Ice Foci ) but i'm also torn with being 'fluffy' and amassing this huge army of Blizzards, Death's Devices and Frostbites.