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  1. #1
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    Hoj’s Fun & Exciting Outcasts :: New players & Old Welcome

    So Never Knows best just did a great high level analysis of a few factions in another thread and I figured I'd give a unit by unit breakdown and MY OPINIONS on them. Please note I'm no official authority on what is or is not too strong in the current meta, I am however a highly experienced and skilled player being the longest outcast player in the game (yes I tested the original outcasts and back when I made the first immortal I was given advance rules for some of the final units to make my immortal synergize with things). So, this is going to be long, I'll give pros and cons and again MY OPINIONS (opinions are how I view these things and may in fact differ from your logic, it doesn't mean you or I are wrong, it just comes down to OPINIONS). Please refrain from posting in this thread until I finish the unit text dump, I'll let you know when.
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    Let's start with the Outcast "Leaders":

    Hoj:

    He does not need a buff at all – there is plenty of reason to take Hoj with some game types in mind. If I need a guy to live for a long time and complete objectives, then his value becomes worth it. Here’s what I see. Brutal, cool it gets around annoying parry lists – someone does this better (Mongo); Combat Reflexes is a great survivability tool, and with scenario changes we may need guys to live all game, we got jobs that need to be done; Crack Shot is nice especially coupled with paralyzing poison on a gun; Inspire +1s on the command is good and Command is a great utility to have for a squad link alpha strike. Never Panic and parry are both top notch abilities and finally he has Survivalist which makes him a pain in the a** to kill at range. Solid stat line, High AP, low Def, above average Armor, good move speed at 3, PS is standard for a leaderish model and 3 HP is actually worth a lot more with Elusive, Parry, & Reflexes. His stat line is great for a leader, his attack groups are nice with a 2x ranged option, a reach and an arc option…

    Why Take Hoj: Survivability, paralyzing poison, objective grab & hold, command
    Why Pass on Hoj: Scuts are faster and cheaper for objective grabbing, a Manhunter and Bullies offer the same range benefits of Paralyzing Poison and they both infiltrate, and Mongo kills things with much more brutal efficiency.

    Final thought: If objectives in the game came to “This model must survive the match” or “One model must plant a bomb on 3 objectives”, really anything which requires any durability to complete a scenario, I include Hoj in the list 10 times out of 10. But at 140 PV and the auto-include Mongo (see below), it really is tough to find the points but if scenarios change how I think they should, you will see a lot of use for Hoj (me).

    Warchief:

    The non-named Hoj. Almost the exact stat line with 1 better def and 1 less PS, as with Hoj, no issues on the stat line. Gun lacks Paralyzing Poison, has command, elusive, never panic, survivalist (I’d say this is almost repetitive with elusive if not for the light cover), brutal attacks and knock prone. This is slightly better for a value position than Hoj because you can grab 2x Scuts or a Wasteland Warrior, but you pay with the loss of the survivability and paralyzing poison.

    Why Take Warchief: PV efficiency, think warwind equivalent for the outcasts.
    Why Pass on Warchief: Draining your opponents AP is the most valuable asset to Outcasts, this guy can’t do it. Like Hoj, he’s weak compared to Mongo, and for good reason, this is ½ the PV, so it’s a value add. I find he competes directly with Manhunter in the current format for a list spot, and since I can grab a Manhunter and a Scut for the same cost, which nets me 2 models that both drain AP.

    Final thought: I said it a few times, it's a value add and will come down to playstyle. I prefer the manhunter / scut combo, you may prefer our warwind equivalent. There's good reasons to either take or pass on this guy.

    Mongo:

    This is the GOLD STANDARD. Survivability, Damage Output, can’t be KP, Tough as Nails, high def but good armor. Brutal, ED2, 2 attacks per group… You can tell me he is 140, 160, 200, 220 PV, he is in every list. He can kill anything in the game easily. He is a point sink, but provides Outcasts with a killing power which (almost) all of their other units lack. If you’re not running slaves, you’re running a Mongo.

    Why Take Mongo: Listed above, he's strongggggg. He is survivable, ED2, crazy damage output, just overall a SOLID unit, one of THE best in the game.
    Why Pass on Mongo: You are a slaver or don't want the point sink. Also he is weak vs AP drain such as whiplash.

    Final Thoughts: He probably could still be worth a higher PV and be worth every single point. I NEVER take an outcast list without him.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:14 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Next up, " Troopers":

    Wasteland Warriors:

    Basic troops with a nifty (campy) hook gun. Scavenge is their main selling point and if they are in an army with a lot of bodies they are worth it. Their only issue is that Scuts are ½ their price, which often leads to the decision do I take one or the other, I usually mix, but Scut spamming is strong. They are OK as is and are worth their PV.

    Why take Warriors: Bodies, scavenge, an OK ranged attack...
    Why Pass on Warriors: You favor Scuts in their place for half the cost.

    Final Thoughts: It's an OK add, has some synergies with slavers (more on that later). It's your call more warriors or scuts or a mix. No one will think twice if you field a few of these guys, but probably keep to around 0 - 3 of them...

    Brute:

    The not good Mongo. Their attacks have the massive damage potential of Mongo but there is one HUGE difference. MV 2 with only 3 ap makes them almost unplayable (I know you're going to say pusher, I'll get there). At 65 PV, I’d take 2, and in order to ensure they actually reach the enemy I’d need a Pusher. That’s 215 PV. Why would I take this over a Mongo? They have lower AS, no fortitude and worse MV. I’m running headlong towards the enemy, so they see where I am and can counter with slaves, AP drains, tarpits, etc... Easily countered by fire (lose an AP putting out), stun, paralyzing poison, whiplash, getting bogged down by enemy slaves (or slave equivalents).

    Why Take Brutes: OK I gave a lot of negatives on them, but there is a nfty trick. Run 3 brutes w/ a pusher and mongo. This is a MASSIVE point sink, but it's too many high value targets for an opponent to clear out, someone will reach them and kill... A lot. In this type of list you're kind of forced to fill with scuts and a manhunter, but they are ok options, so a list like this WOULD be competitive
    Why Pass on Brutes: Slow, low AP, high PV, better things in the outcast lists...

    Final Thoughts: I actually am thinking about running the massive Brute / Mongo Horde. It's doable, but not easy. Requires a lot of knowing what / when / where to engage.

    Scut:

    MVP of Outcasts. Standard games I can take 6, that’s awesome, I can make you burn 6 activations or I can alpha strike your line by squadlinking. For 20 PV I get Infiltrate and whiplash. They have scavenge and elusive too, the good times never end with them. They can objective grab with the best of them and can lock down an entire army. There is no reason not to have 2 – 6 in every list. Honestly, their PV should be higher.

    Why Take Scuts: SOlid add for a low PV. Gives you a lot of special abilities and makes your army faster and drains AP from your opponent.
    Why Pass on Scuts: I don't know why unless it's either a playstyle thing or you just don't like little kids...

    Final Thoughts: Scuts = Crazy good value, stacking whiplash, elusive, objective grabs... They do it all.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:14 PM.
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    Let's look at Buffers / Unit Add-Ons:

    Brute Pusher:

    Mandatory if you use Brutes. Good Field Order, but at 85 PV + at least one or two Brutes, you’re wasting your time not having a Mongo. Lack block stopper... Eh... These guys are 100% dependent on if you run brutes. It is never advised to just take this guy on his own merit.

    Why Take a Pusher: Because you have 2+ Brutes
    Why Pass on a Pusher: High PV, you're just not taking brutes...

    Final Thoughts: Again this would go in the mongo & brute wall list... But other than that, I'd pass just because there is more bang for your PV out there.


    Brute Anchor:

    Has bleed, KP & stun (on the same attack group!), the hook anchor is kind of campy, I’d rather take the Pow 6 hit to bleed or 4x2 to KP and stun. Guard on him is kind of too risky to ever use, but at 75 PV he’s not terrible since he has the MV 3.

    Why Take Anchor: KP & Stun. Has a potential in fitting in a good lock down list.
    Why Pass on Anchor: There are just too many better options to use that PV on.

    Final Thoughts: I can see him fitting in an ultimate lock down list with tons of scuts, bully, manhunter and Hoj. It’s an interesting character with a lot of potential. PV is a smidge on the high side, but I can see where it would fit and the role it should be doing.

    Bully:

    Can squadlink with Scuts, infiltrates has scavange and a 2x per attack group paralyzing poison attack. Value add with Scuts, provides great synergy and provides a road block with paralyzing poison in cc. It’s an auto-include with scuts in the objective grab world we live in.

    Why Take Bully: Listed above, value add and good synergy w/ scuts. Also can lock down enemies via AP drain.
    Why Pass on Bully: You may not take many scuts and just go w/ manhunter. You may favor 3 scuts v. 1 bully. It's your call.

    Final Thoughts: Good value, good synergy and abilities (infiltrate & paralyzing poison) that make him a value add to most lists.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:14 PM.
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    Next up "Solos"

    Fixer:

    Weaponsmith + Medic at 75 PV. Sold. Any army that CAN take a medic and weaponsmith SHOULD take them. This guy just so happens to fill both roles at 75 PV. Auto-Include. Oh he also shoots. Bonus points!

    Why Take a Fixer: Gun + Heal + Superior Maintenance
    Why Pass on Fixer: You don't like to heal? Some people just want to watch the world burn... And you fit more bodies in for his PV.

    Final Thoughts: Auto-include for healing.

    Happy Hour:

    A better "Lucky". Limited 2 shot is nice for the fire and the BL2. I’ve always found Flare Guns to be a waste of an AP. He actually shines in close combat with brutal and crush. For 85 PV he gets 3 HP a good def and armor as well. This is where I argue with the Brute Anchor, which should I take? For the extra 10 PV, I get 2 ranged shots with Happy that Fire and BL2, that to me is better than bleed and KP & Stun since with Happy I get the extra HP and crush for the auto hits is > than hook auto hits. You can now make an Outcast gunline with this guy giving some extra punch. Not an auto-include but a solid choice.

    Why Take Happy: Solid gun and good stats.
    Why Pass on Happy: PV better spent elsewhere, you are going for a different type of list (like AP drain w/ anchor or brute wall).

    Final Thoughts: Nice model overall, it's an OK add and gives some good fire support and better melee abilities.

    Manhunter:

    He’s actually a Bounty Hunter and should be placed in that area of cards / rules. With that said, he is a bargain at 85 points, just because he infiltrates, shoots twice and both his close combat and gun have paralyzing poison and can lock an enemy down for an entire turn himself. Crack shot and the +2 AS for bounty hunter are awesome bonuses.

    Why take Manhunter: There’s really no good reason not to take him as he fills the role of objective grab, AP drain, and has some survivability with a low def and good arm.
    Why Pass on Manhunter: The only real alternative to him is Cesspool for more damage, but the paralyzing poison is just worth more than the rot in my eyes.

    Final Thoughts: Manhunter is a solid unit for a good price that can fill several roles in a list, this is almost an auto-include for me whenever I can take him.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:15 PM.
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    Now, Let's look at SLAVERS!!!!! I'm leaving a little break here since I'm under the school of thought that they are... Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very strong.Again, my opinion, and I will back it up below.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 03:31 PM.
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  7. #7
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    So I'll start w/ not ALL of them are Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very strong, but their synergies and SOME of them are...

    Let's get started, First their general rule where they can't take Mongo / Hoj is a bummer, but they make it up w/ making sure EVERYONE can panic.

    The Warden:

    Ok, the broken is most obvious here. First the VALUE!!!!! 155 PV for the best outcast armor, 4 AP of killing power and that AG #2… The options for ED, proxy strike, KP and BL and range of 12… One of the best AGs in the game. Add whiplash on another AG with unlimited RoF and is brutal… Stacking whiplash is crazy good, no parrying it makes it better. Ferocious assault, tough as nails, just the laundry list he gets easily should put him at 180 – 200 PV. Inspire, this guy can stack Inspire & Command chain gangers to then make them activate, squadlink & alpha strike and easily kill almost anything. If Slaver, auto-include.

    Why take Warden: Look above...
    Why Pass on Warden: You did not look above...

    Final Thoughts: You see that laundry list of abilities, that's why this guy is OP. Plus his inspire on command can pump chain gangers to ultimate crazy heights. You know how I said Mongo was the best? This guy is the Bestest! He really needs to be increased in points just because he has more abilities than well... Everyone in the game.

    Bonner Spyte:

    Close combat has stun, ranged has point blank, he is a medic and a weaponsmith and he’s only 95 PV. See my prior statement about medics and weaponsmiths.

    Why Take Bonner: Same reason you take a fixer
    Why Pass on Bonner: Fixers are cheaper

    Final Thoughts: Same as Fixer, it's up to you which one you'd want.

    Oz, The Pit Champion:

    You know how I said Happy or Anchor? Yeah, Same thing, Oz or Anchor? Oz wins due to the multiple attacks in an attack group, fortitude, scavange, never panic, sunder armor and retaliation. Look what this guy has for the exact PV as the Anchor. Oz is literally 10x better and more effective for the exact same PV. Solid add. Gives KP and stun, has the laundry list of abilities that all “new” models seem to get.

    Why take Oz: Solid melee ability and wall of text of rules that all buff his abilities
    Why Pass on Oz: You favor more bodies for the PV

    Final thoughts: Just look at the stat line and abilities he gets. Now compare it to any "older" unit/model. This is why I complain about balance. It seems like someone just went down a checklist, gave this dude everything at no charge in PV.

    Pit Fighter:

    Mini Oz clones. Have combat reflexes, it will make them slightly annoying to kill. 55 PV is too pricey in my mind for 1 wd models but I can see it with the reflexes coupled with retaliation. If you go mass bodies, they are OK to add, but they’d compete for spots with Wasteland Warriors and Scuts.

    Why take Pits: Combat reflex + retaliation and high MV.
    Why pass on Pits: You favor warriors / scuts

    Final thoughts: Better melee on worse basic troopers. Some nice abilities... I view them the same way as warriors, no one will think twice if you have a few in a list.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:15 PM.
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    Dumping continue:

    Hood, The Executioner:

    In the current setting he is great. The only outcast with assassinate. Can take out those pesky K3 priests or cut up someone on an objective. Situational, but fits to counter the current meta. I’d include him, others would pass for more bodies. Assassinate is in the top 3 abilities in the game, him being the only outcast with it makes him worth his PV.

    Why take Hood: Assassinate and good melee / survivability
    Why Pass on Hood: High PV, could grab more bodies for his high PV

    Final Thoughts: I'd take him to counter K3 and fit the meta. Not OP, his PV are justified, overall just a solid add.

    Finn Deadeye:

    Someone messed up here. Bad. So for 75 Points, I get a RoF 2 weapon that shoots 2x per AG and I have crack shot, quick draw, a 14 inch range and my favorite Ricochet. Someone said, Hoj yes, please shoot me 4 times a turn at max range with 1 model and even if I make a save another guy within 4 inches of me now has to save too… She should literally be RoF 1, like only 1 shot, or make her gun restricted so she can't clip off 4 sniper shots a turn then quick draw with a shotgun. She is far too good compared to any other shooter in the game. AS 6 (mostly 8 w/ quick draw / aim) power 6 shots. She will rip through armies on her own.

    Why Take Finn: See above.
    Why Pass on Finn: You don't like taking obviously Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very strong models who were released with no one really paying attention...

    Final Thoughts: Please don't disagree with me on this one... I think I laid out a fair argument just based off of the volume of shots for 75 PV. She is Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very strong.

    Aja & Devon:

    Since you have to field both at the same time they get one entry. One gives me paralyzing poison, the other gives whiplash. The power in each is there melee (Aja) stacking whiplash and taking 4 shots (Devon) that paralyzing poison, blind and / or entangle. Not auto-includes as points may be tight, but the AP drain they provide is top notch.

    Why Take A&D: Top class AP drains
    Why Pass on A&D: Tight on points...

    Final Thoughts: Just to compare, look at all I just said, these “new” models are so much better than anything older. Why would I ever take 2 brutes over these fine ladies? But seriously, they fill the AP drain role and they do it well.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:16 PM.
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    Slavemaster:

    Great sculpt. He has whiplash, but is also 110 PV and aside from giving a buff to bounty hunters (you’ll probably only ever have 1 or 2 max in a slaver army - but wait there's a twist) the warden for 45 points more, or even the Aja & Devon combo for 130 PV just do everything more or better. I don’t care about his stat line, the warden and Aja & Devon are both in the same point range and each fills the same role better.

    Why Take Slavemaster: Run Him in an all bounty hunter list. The cumulative buffs they will receive become outrageous, plus they will all benefit from the slaver rule... Someone missed this in testing.
    Why Pass on Slavemaster: Because in a slaver list Warden is just better in EVERY way.

    Coffersman:

    Offers instigate and command. If I’m running a body heavy list of pit fighters, slaves, & frenzied I’ll take him. If not I’d take Happy Hour over him.

    Why take Coffer: The buffs
    Why Pass on Coffer: Too many "what if" situations

    Final Thoughts: See this is where there is crazy, borderline OP Synergy... He can buff slaves and frenzied to crazy high combat abilities, i.e. have Warden Command slaves, inspire buff, slave buff, coffersman buff. It’s tricky to pull the combo off, therefore not OP since there are so many variables, it’s just a good combo. Too many “ifs” for me to use, but other people would be a fan of this tactic.

    The Frenzied:

    The Value! OK there is a strong risk with these guys. You take 1 or 2 max. But for 45 points you get a frenzied, furious charging cannibal with stun, a bite reflex and a good pw on both AGs.

    Why Take Frenzied: Great value for their combat ability.
    Why Pass on Frenzied: Again a lot of what ifs and potential harm to your own force.

    Final thoughts: At 45 points these guys feel just right with their potential output vs the downside. I don’t like risks in my list, I’d steer clear of them, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t good. They are just a little… Random.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:16 PM.
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    The Unbound:

    Another unit with stun and KP! They also infiltrate! Backstab and Scavenge! These are like steroid scuts without a ranged attack but a better stat line. 65 PV (again look what he gets opposed to a brute, standard, pusher or anchor for the same or better PV).

    Why take Unbound: Better version of scuts stat-wise and ability-wise
    Why Pass on Unbound: Scuts are still a lot cheaper... it's 3 for 1...

    Final Thoughts: This guy can fill a myriad of roles and is a value add for 65 PV. I’d take one, probably only 1 though, scuts or a bully still offer better value in the format of objective grabbing.

    Chain Ganger:

    Great value at 25 PV, can take 18 in a 750 PV game (not smart, but 6 or so…). Distraction is the key. The bonus to gang up, + distraction, + coffersman, + inspired command, + superior gang up from a gang boss… I’d run them straight into a Howler and laugh as it died to these 25 PV models.

    Why take Gangers: Value add and crazy synergy potential.
    Why Pass on Gangers: If you go for a low body / high individual list with guys like hood, a&d, finn, warden, bonner, etc... there probably won't be enough room to fit a lot of them in and they need synergy to pay off big time.

    Final thoughts: The combo potential is great with them, they also have scavenge which is great as there will be tons of bodies around. There is serious value here, but it takes a lot to pull off. It’s not OP, it’s just a great combo.

    Gang Boss:

    Makes the chain gang work better with superior gang up. He also has an attack that KPs and Stuns! He can Push the gang and use human shields to protect himself. Vital to the combo listed above, good value for 75 PV.

    Why Take Gang Boss: You have a lot of chain gangers...
    Why Pass on Boss: You aren't taking gangers...

    Final thoughts: Same as the brute pusher... Offers great synergy, but needs a unit to be effective.
    Last edited by Hoj; 07-30-2014 at 04:16 PM.
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